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GP-101: My friend's favorite. Shh!


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GP-101: Look how effective that I can't even remember who taught me that. But it's so effective. Good morning, everybody. My name is Juanita Todd. I want to thank you all for joining us here today and online. Hello to everybody online.


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GP-101: For our neurodiversity stem in the workplace Forum, fostering inclusion and valuing diverse minds.


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GP-101: So I'm going to briefly acknowledge that we in the room today are meeting on the lands of the peoples those that are in town, on the traditional aboriginal owners of the land that we gathered on today. I would like you to join me in honouring them. We recognise their enduring connection to the land and the water in our community, and we pay respects to the wilder


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GP-101: wisdom. Sorry of elders, past, present, and extend that respect to any 1st nations. People joining us today. I'd also like to respect that the increasing number of people clocking up online, who you may be joining us from other lands, and I acknowledge your peoples also.


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GP-101: and with that it's my pleasure to hand over to our special guest Star this morning, and a longtime friend I'd like to call you a long time, friend Jodie, and thank you. I look forward to hearing everything we have to talk about today. Thank you so much, Juanita. Hi, everyone. My name's Jodie Simpson, and I just wanted to begin today by


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GP-101: having a couple of sentences on inclusivity for our meeting. So I wanted you to know that this is a safe space.


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GP-101: We would like it to be a safe space for everyone that you could be yourselves. And so what that might mean is, you might need to move around. You might need to have a break. You might want to fidget. You might want to have your phone out while we're talking, and that is completely okay. Whatever you need to do to feel comfortable today is completely okay with all of us, and we we hope you don't mind us doing the same.


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GP-101: And if there's anything you need to help, you feel included, let us know. I know that lights can be a challenge. And so if anyone would like the lights


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GP-101: change, just shout out, and I will try and work out how to do that for you.


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GP-101: So with that, said, I, would like to introduce you to


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GP-101: our guest speakers who are sitting over here today. I think I'll introduce them as they each come up and talk just briefly about something called the Neuroadvisory Newcastle, which you probably haven't heard of.


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GP-101: But it is a consumer advisory group that we've established. That's really about championing neurodiversity in research and teaching in partnership with neurodivergent people. And so what we did. It's the 1st of its kind in Newcastle.


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GP-101: It's a 13 panel group that we established at the end of 2023. So we're really new and early, and we're still learning how to operate in this space. But we've so far we've really enjoyed being involved in a number of research projects, and we've been able to go and


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GP-101: do things like come and talk today. Run sensory rooms, at events, and we've spoken to the Human Ethics Committee at the end of last year. So just any way that we can talk about ways to understand neuro


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GP-101: diversity and the needs of neurodivergent people. More.


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GP-101: we were designed to guide research, and that means we would love to be involved in every step of research processes. Some of us have research backgrounds. Some of us don't. But we all have lived experience. And so we're really committed to those inclusive practices. But we want to create this culture where neurodivergent people are recognized as experts by that lived experience.


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GP-101: So my job this morning is to give a little bit of an introduction about neurodiversity and


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GP-101: in terms of definitions. Neurodiversity is the natural variation in how people think, learn and interact with the world.


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GP-101: So


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GP-101: everyone comes under that you know, everyone is neurodiverse, if you like. Then there is this term called neurodivergence, which refers to variations from what someone has decided from what is considered typical or normal. And I put that umbrella up there because there are many


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GP-101: conditions on there, or labels you might have heard of. Obviously autism. Adhd are the 2 most common ones that people are aware of, but lots of things are considered to be in that umbrella of a neurodivergent


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GP-101: person.


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GP-101: And so you might hear the 2 words, neurodivergent and neurotypical. So neurodivergent includes people in the umbrella and neurotypical is kind of everyone else, and the world and the environment is inherently set up


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GP-101: in a neurotypical way.


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GP-101: And I think that's what we we want to talk a bit about today about ways we might challenge that or simple things we can do to make it comfortable for everyone.


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GP-101: So I realize what I do. One thing I do, you know, when I give presentations now is, I put lots of animations in, because it helps me slow down and not talk too fast.


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GP-101: In terms of prevalence.


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GP-101: I'm sure you're all aware of this running commentary about, you know. Oh, there was never this much autism and Adhd. But to give you some numbers as a stem group, I thought you might like numbers


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GP-101: 2022 data suggest around 1% of Australians have a diagnosis of autism. That's a 40% increase in in 4 years


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GP-101: and a 95% increase in women diagnosis that's going to keep exploding


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GP-101: in Adhd. It's it's harder to get data. But data from the Pds suggests that there's a 300% increase in Adhd medication use in the last 10 years, much sharper in adults, and of course much sharper in women.


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GP-101: So that's some numbers. I thought I might talk a little bit about my pathway to discovering I was neurodivergent.


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GP-101: And I thought I'd give you a little timeline. So 1973 was the great year when I entered the world. Thank you.


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GP-101: Orange is kind of work, education, and kind of the blue is kind of personal stuff. So in 1991, I went to Tafe because I was too scared to go to university, and then decided I did want to go to university. So I started university in 1992.


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GP-101: I tell you these things because they're relevant to my diagnosis.


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GP-101: In 1997 I completed my Bachelor of Science with honours in physical chemistry which I loved, but didn't really think I would pursue that as a job. I wasn't sure how to do that, and went and found a job in respiratory medicine, and eventually started and finished a Phd. In asthma in 2,005.


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GP-101: Everything was


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GP-101: walking along. Pretty good. 2,009 and 10, I became a parent. I had 2 beautiful children.


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GP-101: In 2015 I got my 1st full time ongoing academic position. After being a research fellow for all of that time after my Phd. And in 2016 I became a professor


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GP-101: in 2020 I became a carer. It's important context.


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GP-101: For my eldest daughter.


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GP-101: I need a drink waters. I came in 2022.


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GP-101: I was diagnosed with autism, cost a lot of money


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GP-101: I got diagnosed out of going through my children's diagnostic process and going.


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GP-101: That's normal. We all my family all do that. That's there's nothing wrong with that.


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GP-101: But then, realizing it, met some kind of criteria in a book. And so I said to my daughter, psychologist, I think I'm autistic. She's like, Oh!


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GP-101: And I told her a couple of things. She goes


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GP-101: off. I went. After I did the 1st session. I rang a friend and said.


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GP-101: if I don't get a diagnosis, I'm gonna now be devastated like I've been like. Now, I've understood all of this. So then you have this kind of


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GP-101: but yeah, that all these things you've experienced aren't going to be recognized


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GP-101: in 2024. I was diagnosed with Adhd. Also, I didn't think I had.


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GP-101: But lots of colleagues have thought that was pretty funny. But I started working through understanding my diagnosis of autism. And then I said to my new psychologist.


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GP-101: I think I've got Adhd and doing that diagnostic process separate. One also cost around a thousand dollars.


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GP-101: But I started to understand the coping mechanisms I'd use throughout my life.


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GP-101: and the things the strategies I was able to put in place without even realizing. So I remember everyone's going to tell me if I talk too much. Second year chemistry exam. Here at Newcastle there was a really easy, multiple choice question. It was something like 2 groups of atoms, and you had to count them and say how many were carbon and how many were oxygen? For example?


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GP-101: My brain goes a million miles an hour.


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GP-101: Yep, they answered. It went on, answered, it left, or I counted them wrong, and that'll be the easy question they put in. That kind of everyone gets right so they know how to, you know, but not everyone got it right, because my brain went too fast and I mucked it up.


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GP-101: That's a common thread in my learning career.


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GP-101: So in terms of work in the orange there, you can see. After I was professor. I then went on, this wonderful pathway of taking on lots and lots of more academic leadership roles, all of which I loved. I had my own research group


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GP-101: that was fantastic.


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GP-101: Then, after 2020, a couple of other things started to happen, and I put perimenopause on only last night because I hadn't understood at the time when I 1st wrote this slide how much perimenopause and autism and Adhd, all kind of


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GP-101: what would you say? Impact each other? And I know you might not be aware that there's a lot of emerging information coming out about how those hormonal changes impact experience of symptoms. And certainly from my Adhd context.


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GP-101: I've definitely noticed those symptoms more in the last few years than I ever had previously.


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GP-101: So that's kind of how I became what they call au audi HD, thanks, audi HD


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GP-101: from never thinking I was either.


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GP-101: So I popped this up. I found this. I loved it.


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GP-101: Play along if you want but I put it up to show you that even within


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GP-101: autism or in Adhd, or in any neurodivergent condition, there's a lot of variability. So the grey ones are all the things I knew about myself before I got a diagnosis right? I was a researcher. I wanted to answer questions. I didn't understand why people couldn't just say things simply. I love chemistry, because


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GP-101: there was no big essays and discussions. Right? You added this, you added that you got an answer in comparison to other subjects. So that's 1 of the things I think drew me to that precision.


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GP-101: But as part of my masking I was a really


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GP-101: significant people pleaser. I like routines that works against the Adhd sometimes. So. But I like things to be set out. So I like protocols, works in science.


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GP-101: And I, I am one of those


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GP-101: typical neurodivergent people that really feel this strong sense of injustice.


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GP-101: Then there were some other things I learned after having a diagnosis. So lots of things I do are secret stims that I didn't know were stim. So you might be familiar with those stereotypical stims of, you know, people twirling or jumping or rocking. But I do lots of other secret stims. I love the talk with my hands.


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GP-101: a range of things like teeth. And all this weird stuff that I've been learning about which. Now I just love


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GP-101: and headphones headphones my earbuds. When I go to the shops


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GP-101: when I travel, those things have made a big difference. And I think if I'd known that earlier, if that could have been normal


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GP-101: and comfy clothes is something. So some of these things I only do when I feel really safe.


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GP-101: So, even though I'm comfy today, I still kind of try to put on a work attire. But I'd probably be happier in my T-shirt and thongs and


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GP-101: tracking Dax


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GP-101: just to finish up some cool things that I've learned. This photo is from a conference I went to 2 years ago, yellow Ladybugs Conference in Melbourne. But I want to draw your attention to the color of the food.


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GP-101: It's all brown, tan beige, whatever you want to call it. This is the 1st conference I've been to lots of conferences around the world in science, but I've never been to one that was so inclusive and catered. So I had a bucket of hot chips and a drink, and you could go and sit on your own and not talk to anyone, or you could go and lay on the beanbag, or you could sit and have a chat for what it felt like. So I love that


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GP-101: I learned this when I sing random lines from songs, they just pop in my head, and I have to sing them out loud to you. That's called Echolalia.


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GP-101: When I don't feel okay, but I can't tell you exactly what that feeling is. I'm not always good at pronouncing this Alexithymia.


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GP-101: I trip over nothing a lot, so you might see me in the shop if you see me in the shops, and I'm walking along, and I do a big trip, and then I look back and laugh.


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GP-101: That's that.


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GP-101: I never really feel full.


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GP-101: And I'm not 100% sure when I'm in pain. So you know, when you you know health professionals say? Rate it out of 10. How bad is the pain I'm like, I don't know. Is it a 9? What does a 9 feel like. Is it a 7? Is it a 2? Well, I think I'm hypochondriac if I say 9. So I go through this whole


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GP-101: and we've been talking about this week at different times. When I think your response means I've done something wrong. I like get really upset because rejection sensitivity is something I've learned that I experience.


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GP-101: and I'm learning how to try and stop and not react. But that's still taking some time, even at my


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GP-101: my very


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GP-101: I wouldn't say advanced age, but you know, at 52 I'm still learning a lot about how these things


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GP-101: change in me from day to day. So the other thing I would say is, these things are dynamic.


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GP-101: and that's another important thing to remember. It's not the same every day. Oh, that's the end of my little bit. So what I would. I'm just going to hand on to Danny now, and she's going to talk to you about student theory, which you may have heard of. But Danny wanted to share this with you as a way that you might be able to engage in workplace in teaching and research and understanding our capacity because


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GP-101: it's really variable. It is so welcome, Danny. Thank you.


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GP-101: Hello, everyone. So I'm Denny. I'm an autistic Adhd doing my Phd. At the moment on


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GP-101: late diagnosis of neurodivergent women and the support that they can receive post diagnosis.


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GP-101: So when I was thinking about what I wanted to share. Today


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GP-101: I was thinking about something that has not just been really monumental for me in learning about my neurodivergence, but also the neurodivergent people in my life.


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GP-101: And that's a thing called spoon theory. So if you haven't heard of it before, spoon theory came about from a woman called Christine Misorandino.


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GP-101: She's a disability activist, and in 2,003 she was having a conversation with a friend at an Italian restaurant


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GP-101: about her Lupus and her friend was saying, I don't understand why these things are so difficult for you when they're just easy. Why can't you just do them? And Christine explained that


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GP-101: we both have a certain amount of students in a day to use on tasks.


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GP-101: I have lupus. My disability impacts me. I have less spoons than you, and tasks will often cost me more spoons.


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GP-101: So the basics of spoon theory is that


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GP-101: it's about our energy. Every task we have in a day takes


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GP-101: a spoon. We have finite spoons. We cannot get them back. Once we use a spoon, they're gone.


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GP-101: And for neurodivergent people, tasks can cost more spoons.


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GP-101: If I share an example of


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GP-101: a conference or a work event


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GP-101: for someone who's neurotypical. That could just be, yeah. It's tiring. I've got to go. And I have to present I've got to prepare


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GP-101: for a neurodivergent person. It can start weeks before when I'm thinking about what I'm going to wear to a conference. Where am I going to park? What is it going to be like when I'm socializing with people? The lead up takes spoons for me


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GP-101: on the day I think about harsh lighting where I'm sitting. If I'm having to hold my body in a certain way for a long period of time, if I have to censor myself while I'm talking. If I have to make sure that I don't say anything weird, or overshare, or start bringing up some random interest I've got


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GP-101: in my head, and I'll share one example. I listened to a podcast. On Russian spies and became fascinated, and I cannot tell you how inappropriate it is to start randomly bringing up Russian spies in conversations that seem to have no connection.


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GP-101: So, censoring myself in that way takes a lot.


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GP-101: and then it's also the spoons I use afterwards when I go away. And I think, Okay, now, I'm going to replay every conversation I had today, and think about all of the things I shouldn't have said, and all of the things that you know were awful. So an event that for someone else might seem quite simple takes a lot of spoons for me, and being aware of


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GP-101: the activities and tasks in my day that take a lot of spoons has helped me find a way that I can manage my neurodiversity, that I can understand it better, but also that I can take care of myself without necessarily needing to disclose. I don't always tell employers or professionals. That's a lie. I used to not always tell employers or professionals that I had Adhd or was autistic. Now I do all the time.


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GP-101: but it wasn't always safe. I've had workplaces that even when they know they didn't support the accommodations that I needed. But when I have been able to disclose. I've been able to use this language with employers to talk about events or activities that I might have been asked to do that are going to take a lot of spoons for me.


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GP-101: So the things that have really helped me in terms of spin theory is that


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GP-101: because I'm thinking of tasks.


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GP-101: I say energy here, but I want to make it very clear that I think it's good that the language is separate from energy, which can be quite loaded, and can sometimes seem like a personal failing if you don't have enough energy. Have you been eating well? Have you been sleeping? Have you been taking care of yourself instead? We all have spoons. It's sort of separate from that quite loaded word, but it is. I'm thinking about my tasks in terms of


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GP-101: energy in terms of spoons instead of time. Phone call might be quite quick. Takes me a lot of spoons because of the build up. I might pair that with something that's quite long, but doesn't cost me as many spoons like designing spreadsheets.


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GP-101: It's a way that I can plan my work week without necessarily needing to talk to my employers about it. Where I have flexibility. I will plan my work week to have high cost tasks with low cost tasks.


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GP-101: and it's also given me shared language that I can use, not just with employers that I've been able to talk to, but with family. So when I come home, and I realize that all of my spoons for the day have been used, and I'm not feeling up to chatting, I can just communicate that to my family in a really quick way. Sorry I've got no spoons left. Use too many spoons.


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GP-101: And another example that I wanted to give just to share. What happens when we overuse spoons is that of kids. So I used to work with a lot of neurodivergent


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GP-101: families, parents and children and talk about when a child gets home from school, and they've used all their spoons, and then they're asked to just quickly tidy up their room and a meltdown can happen when we used all our spoons. We don't realize being aware of the extra tasks that come up that take more of our spoons can help us. Also be really kind to ourselves, and try and plan ahead to make sure that we can preserve some of our spoons for those kind of things


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GP-101: sick.


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GP-101: That's me. Thank you.


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GP-101: Thank you.


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GP-101: Thanks so much, Danny. I love that example about the phone call and the spreadsheet that was made a lot of sense to me. Next speaker is Kat. He's gonna come and talk to us about some accommodations and


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GP-101: we just pop this slide up this we were asked, at other events, about what? Why accommodations important? This was some of the feedback from the neuro advisory. So I pop that up while Kat comes and tells you what she's going to speak about.


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GP-101: Welcome back.


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GP-101: Hi, everyone. I need notes to keep me in check. Okay.


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GP-101: so accommodations and adjustments. I like to think of them as just a way of people leveling, leveling the playing field for us.


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GP-101: They include us and they help us make help make us feel more connected to our team apologies. I'm gonna stumble over my words a few times because I'm not as great a public speaker as these lovelies. I do love my neurokin


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GP-101: apologies. So I think the hard thing that I've been learning is, despite


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GP-101: so much increased education around neurodivergence recently, is that


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GP-101: inclination to think, oh, I understand. Dsm, 5. Criteria. So I understand autism, or Adhd, or anything. But we are all different, despite sharing that


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GP-101: same diagnostic criteria. So if you've met one neurodivergent individual, you've met one. So that means all of these accommodations that we suggest are lovely and might work for some, but sometimes we also need to find those other workarounds.


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GP-101: I'd like everyone to understand that disclosure is a personal choice. We don't have to disclose.


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GP-101: But please understand that if neurodivergent people choose not to disclose, it's not to try and make things more difficult. It's just that we're so used to coming up to situations where we're either made feel less or feel uncomfortable, and that can kind of make us apprehensive to ask for those adjustments, even though that's kind of counterproductive


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GP-101: I personally do disclose, because people will judge even when you don't disclose, but I consider the toll on my well-being and mental health from constantly having to mask in situations. It's a lot easier if I can just kind of get myself out there, see where I sit, and then work out my own strategies for working around. Whether I have the adjustments or I don't have the adjustments, and where I kind of need to


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GP-101: find my feet around that


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GP-101: I'd like everyone that is neurodivergent here today to consider.


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GP-101: Do you really want to work in a place where you can't be yourself? Or do you want to work with our wonderful industry partners that are open to being, you being, you, giving you the space to bring your authentic self to work and supporting you to succeed in your chosen stem field. Because there are a lot here today. There are a lot online. There's a lot out there in our wider university and industry community that are very open to helping us and having those accommodations put in place. But they can't help us if they don't know that we need that help. In the 1st place.


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GP-101: so be brave, and if you don't want to disclose, don't disclose, but at least open a conversation about the fact that you need adjustments and


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GP-101: start giving them the opportunity to help you put those in place.


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GP-101: Bye.


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GP-101: Sorry guys like I said, not as great as you guys, I think


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GP-101: we can kind of go into our adjustments. Now, so


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GP-101: consider these lights today. For most people, it's probably not that bad. I think all of us kind of just put our


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GP-101: tough shoes on today, and we will handle it because the lights can be kind of hard to figure out on the university campuses, but there are alternatives that you can have to the harsh fluorescent light. So where applicable you could consider putting in dimmable lighting. I know that that's not exactly cost effective for the labs or offices, but you can think about different ways to tweak that. Can we change a fluorescent light to a warm white light instead of a bright white light. Can we use


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GP-101: utilize natural lighting of the spaces? Can we use natural artificial natural lights in place of


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GP-101: other light sources, to just decrease this harsh lighting


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GP-101: noise. Cancelling headphones are a really great one for us, particularly when we get to sensory overload. I know that there's a lot of contention around whether or not that decreases safety in a lab space. But we do have a lot of people that also have hearing impairments. If we have implements in place for hearing impaired students or staff to then be still alerted when there is an emergent situation or a need to be able to respond.


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GP-101: Why can't we have those similar things in place for a neurodivergent person? But then, if you don't want to go the noise cancelling headphone route, or you do think that that's too inappropriate for the workplace. Consider loops. We do have loops that can knock out all noise, or you have loops that can minimize the


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GP-101: I'm losing my word. Ambience. Thank you. The ambient noise, but still actually hear the person right next to you.


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GP-101: Yes, sorry.


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GP-101: Sorry. Loops are tiny little things that look like


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GP-101: earbuds. Thank you. I was thinking of the ones that tradies use little earbuds that you pop in. They can be adjusted so that they can block out well, depends on the type you buy. But there's 1 type you can buy that blocks out all noise, or you can shift that so that it lets in a little bit of noise, or you can shift it so that it lets in most noise, but still blocks out the majority of what actually leads us to sensory overload.


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GP-101: which brings me to sensory overload.


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GP-101: I know I've met a lot of people in my life when I start to respond to a sound that makes me feel really uncomfortable, that are like it's not that bad. No, but my entire nervous system feels like it's on fire right now.


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GP-101: So it it's a lot bigger than what it looks, and a lot of us have gotten used to


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GP-101: masking up. You know you have that experience. No, can't let that show. But inside it's an entirely different story. So I would ask that people


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GP-101: think about that when you have somebody come to you. That is high masking isn't necessarily showing that sound is necessarily a consideration for them, but it could be, and they're just not comfortable enough to say that.


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GP-101: keeping that in mind with loops and headphones, I think.


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GP-101: throughout the questions that came to Leah. And with these lovelies that I've gotten to know through neuroadvisory, one common thing that comes across is needing breaks, and this can be for a multitude of different reasons. A lot of people think, oh, everybody would like more breaks


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GP-101: when we get to a point where we're at meltdown.


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GP-101: We need to leave the room. We need to have a quiet space to re-regulate, bring us back to ground, reset, come back to work with a fresh pair of eyes, fresh attitude, fresh nervous system, so to speak, that can mean the same at lunch, like we've already had to be in a lab meetings all day or in a lab, or at work, or in an office that's busy. We can be overloaded from social. We might want to just go and sit somewhere quiet for lunch.


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GP-101: whatever. I know not. All of you can necessarily go, and then go. We'll make a quiet space, but if you've got a room that you could make. That's just a little bit away from the hustle and bustle, or at least makes people aware of where they can go in your working environment like, oh, just down this hallway, around the corner there's a nice little courtyard. Not many people go there. You might find a quiet moment there if you need to, maybe


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GP-101: let him go for a walk every now and then. Just take a tiny little out.


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GP-101: I need water, too.


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GP-101: Sorry everyone. Yes, please. Oh, you're amazing. I love that so if you don't seen loops before, they look like they come in cool little case, different sizes, and then the loops themselves are really little, and you can put them in like so. And you can get different levels of how how good they are. I love that you have those. Thank you.


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GP-101: Clear, unambiguous operating procedures and instructions, I think, are vital to us.


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GP-101: I have


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GP-101: a thing where I've noticed that there's a way to simplify our sops sometimes, and it'll just loop us back to repeat from Step 6.


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GP-101: I understand that that's really nice and convenient to not have to rewrite steps, but my brain goes back to that. I will tell you that I waste a lot of time overthinking if I've missed a step, or if I'm rereading and making sure, triple checking, that I've done everything correctly


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GP-101: again. That's not something that probably everyone wants to do. Make our 15 page sop a 30 page sop. But it's helpful to have those steps clearly laid out for us. But there's something that you can factor into other instructions.


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GP-101: Our working procedures particularly vague. Is there a way that we can make them more specific to help people? Is there a way that we can be more clear with what is expected of staff, so that there's no ambiguity in anything we've just got. That set pace of. This is what's expected of me. Let's get in and do that today.


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GP-101: methods of contact. This is a contentious one. But some people prefer phone. Some people prefer text. Some people prefer email. I think I prefer a lot in printed form if we're somewhere. So I like to


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GP-101: have people think about how you're presenting information. So if we're here today, if


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GP-101: I actually talked about that. Could we have a paper version of this for anybody that wanted it? Could we have visuals for people


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GP-101: in a lab setting? I love when I go into a class, and they've given us all the little videos beforehand, because I will cover all the theory, but going in and doing it in the lab an entirely different scenario. If I've had that pre-visual


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GP-101: walk through, then I know I can go in. This is what this is. This is what I'm doing. Here's my sop that I'm probably still going to get lost through. But at least I've got the visual imprinted in here to help me through it.


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GP-101: We have a tendency to get hyper focused into things which can be a blessing. It can be a curse


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GP-101: depends on the context. However, we also


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GP-101: have a pretty, not all of us. Most of us have a pretty strong fight flight, startle response with people a lot of the times.


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GP-101: So I just wanted to bring up that if you have somebody that's kind of hyper focused in whatever situation or wearing noise, cancelling headphones, think about how you're going to go and get their attention. If you actually need to talk to them, can you give them a little bit more time to finish through their hyper focus and come out of that before you go and approach them. Can you move around in a way that's going to put you sort of in their visual line before you actually speak to them, and I know a natural inclination. When you want to go and talk to people is to walk up. Tap them. Please


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GP-101: don't tap them. You're probably going to jump out of their skin, and that could be potentially dangerous, depending on where we are and what we're doing


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GP-101: meetings and how we set them up is another thought, can we have an agenda provided prior something that some of my working groups do some don't. It's always handy for us to know what we're going into, what we're going to be talking about. Timeframes are great, so we can stay on track.


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GP-101: Giving the option to either attend in person or via zoom.


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GP-101: if you're on zoom, and you're not required to speak, have a think about maybe letting them turn their camera off or adjusting.


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GP-101: not being able to see themselves something. I don't know if you guys like it, but I'm trying not to look at that or this right now, because it's ghastly looking at myself while I'm talking to all of you fine folk.


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GP-101: If you're having a conversation actually in a lab or an office that's going to last longer than 5 min. Can you potentially consider the people in the room that might have Adhd, and find that potentially distracting and then get lost for a few hours.


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GP-101: Can we shift it to a hallway? Can we shift it to an office? Can we say? Hey, we're going to be a while. Shove your noise, cancelling headphones on so that you don't have to listen to us and get distracted. You can only do that. Of course, if you know the person actually has Adhd


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GP-101: flexibility for internal and external environments. So those of us that have a psychiatrist. They're extremely hard to find in the Newcastle area. I don't know how many of you know that, but they're also not the types of people you want to cancel appointments on, because they will be extremely hard to reschedule. So, having some flexibility when we do have appointments that were booked in


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GP-101: for months, you know I've got to leave work for 2 h. Pop in. Repeat my script. I'll be back. Please


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GP-101: keep that into consideration. Is the opportunity to do hybrid work. Can we do some work from home? Can we do some work in the lab, can we? We've wasted to borrow


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GP-101: Danny's? Thank you. I'm having a great day. Danny's spoon theory. If we've run out of spoons in our lab, can we go and do our notes at home, provided obviously, that we have the capacity to take our work outside of our lab, setting


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GP-101: just little things with flexibility, flexible start times and finish times. I know some people that are more productive. Super early in the morning. I know some people that


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GP-101: don't function well until after 12 pm. Again. Not particularly useful for every one of our work environments. But where possible.


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GP-101: how can we factor in some of these things?


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GP-101: Furniture is a tricky one. I know a lot of people like to say that we all love ergonomic furniture we all love sit, stand desks. We all love an exercise ball. No, we're all different. Some people like love. Danny would prefer to sit on the floor, which I absolutely adore.


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GP-101: Some people would rather stand up and run around all day because it keeps them moving. It keeps them focused, and they can just work through their tasks while they're jumping. Some people would like their sit stand desks. We have a lot of Co. Occurring conditions. So sometimes it's not just about the neurodivergence and people go. Oh, why do you need an ergonomic chair? Why do you need a sit stand desk, we might have a physical condition. That's there. As well. We might have


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GP-101: chronic fatigue syndrome. We could have fibromyalgia. There is so many things we should know as scientists that nothing's ever simple. Everything's a mixed bag. We're certainly no different. We hear a lovely mixed bag of differences.


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GP-101: The last thing I kind of wanted to bring up.


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GP-101: I missed assistive technology. However, there, I had a colleague.


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GP-101: Teach me about natural reader. That was a game changer for me because I read a lot of journals through my studies and through my other work. And then, when I'm going down just a little tangent research rabbit hole.


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GP-101: They can get quite long. That's really tiring. Never much of an auditory learner. But he put me onto that, and he said, you can actually switch them to audio files. So then, when you're wasting that time, you're traveling in the car, you're on a bus, you're on a train. You're walking through a supermarket, and you don't want that noise. Listen to something that you haven't been able to sit and stay focused on while reading.


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GP-101: so that helped me out a lot. There are a lot of people within our community that might be selectively mute, nonverbal that use Aacs. I found this interesting to think about when thinking of it in a stem lab context, because it's so often depending on the lab. What we take in, we can't take out, because then we're taking something potentially something else out with us.


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GP-101: So I don't know. That would be company dependent, I guess, on how you would address that, do we? Then give that staff member, an Aac that stays in the lab so they can still use that as their communicative device, and have the outside one kept free from any nasties that are in our lab environment. But I thought it warranted mentioning


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GP-101: to consider this last thing that I wanted to mention isn't really


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GP-101: an adjustment. It's something that one of my bosses does on a daily basis which I love. I lived by it prior to that, but it certainly makes my life easier, and Ellie Middleton, British Audhdr, who wrote unmasked, and I always forget the name of her second book, because I haven't read it yet.


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GP-101: Has to be. You actually talks through this as well, but in a different matter.


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GP-101: So the what is always what is the task at hand?


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GP-101: Nice, if it's laid out clearly, so that we understand exactly what's expected of us and exactly how to do it.


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GP-101: The why is probably the most important.


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GP-101: because we often struggle with context, or sometimes we might not see the point of doing things. But we're definitely going to have a million questions, a million questions about every single thing we do. A lot of us overthink on those things. If we've got the why, it stops half of the questions it allows us to get straight into a task.


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GP-101: It kind of helps the brain settle down and go all right.


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GP-101: I don't have to overthink this. I've just got my clear goal. Let's do that.


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GP-101: The most important is the when


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GP-101: deadlines that are now are now deadlines that aren't now


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GP-101: they're later. It could be a week later. It could be a couple of weeks later. It could be a month later. But they're not now. They're not urgent. Our brain doesn't go. Let's get it done.


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GP-101: I like. If we do have a deadline further down the line.


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GP-101: Bring some deadlines closer forward, even if it's not technically a deadline. Make it a deadline. All right, this 1st little part of the task we're gonna have done by


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GP-101: week 2. So there's my deadline. I'm not gonna miss it. I'm not going to be late. I'm not gonna let my employees down by


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GP-101: not meeting that timeframe.


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GP-101: It's done, and then consistently do that along the way with projects until we get to the end time I did have


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GP-101: a lab that I volunteered into that didn't give me a timeframe, and just said, Yeah, get you it when you did. I took way too long, so very, very good principle to follow, and that's me.


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GP-101: Thank you.


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GP-101: I'm just going to say one quick thing as Romany before me speaks, I guess, having had my diagnoses later in life, I certainly had the 1st part of my career


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GP-101: thinking about why, you know, why would we make that change? You know everyone else can do it. I was certainly in that mindset. That's how I was.


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GP-101: That's how things were set up. So I carried that on through working with the new advisory. It's been great to challenge that thinking about how actually combinations are great for everyone.


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GP-101: And taking some of that on a board, and being able to bring some of those things in place, and even setting up events like trying to think what might be helpful, for everyone is actually


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GP-101: a great way to start and challenge thinking about. Well, if if someone needs extra time, maybe everyone would like a bit extra time, you know. Is it? What are the consequences? What are the negatives and positives? But I could chat far too long. You mentioned I was actually going to mention it. Right? So I'd like to introduce Romani, who's going the last of our speakers today.


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GP-101: and I'll let you say what you're going to speak about, because I'll get it wrong. You are inclusive practices, all right. Hello, everyone. So yeah. My name's Romany. I'm a researcher. I work in eating disorders actually at Anu. But I did my Phd. In my undergrad


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GP-101: at Newcastle, Uni. I'm a late diagnosed Adhd, and I'm a self diagnosed, autistic person, and I'm very open about that, because I have a lot of feelings about self diagnosis. Come and chat to me later, or ask me so to start off with. I just wanted to go through some things when we talk about neurodiversity, especially I know myself when I was going through my diagnosis, you get kind of caught in a loop of thinking about the problems and the challenges that you face.


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GP-101: which are real, which do exist. But it does mean that sometimes you forget the positives that neurodiversity people can bring


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GP-101: neurodiverse. People bring incredible strengths. Everyone's different. We're not a monolith. But we do tend to have some really cool things. So this is an example from the Lexic Guide. Now, if any of you saw the neurodiversity celebration week that was going on last week, lexic partnered with them and helped run all the events. So this is one of their guides, and this sent me down a rabbit hole, looking up all kinds of things online about the benefits of neurodiverse people. There is a lot of articles out there showing how beneficial it is in terms of the skills we have, but also in terms of the productivity that we can bring.


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GP-101: So that's important. So what I want to do is give you a little example.


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GP-101: So when I was going through my diagnosis process because I was getting so focused on this idea of, oh, yeah, these things that I've always had to do. They were really interestingly, although they were different. They were hard. When I was applying for the role I'm currently in, I actually found it really hard to write my selection criteria because it'd say, You know, what are your organization skills? And in my brain I'm still latched onto. Why, I'm very disorganized because I've got Adhd. I don't know how to say I'm good.


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GP-101: And so that was a really interesting exercise to have to turn that around. So what I was able to do in my Cv. And my selection criteria was actually reframe a lot of stuff. So when I saw the thing about organization, my 1st response was, oh, I'm not organized.


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GP-101: Then I sat down and look at it and went. Actually, no, because I compensate for my lack of organization by being too organized, and that's a positive they don't need to know. It's a compensation, right? They just see the end product. They see how organized I am. People love looking at my folders and my documents on my computer. It's so that is a positive for me. Right? I'm also incredibly good at paying attention to detail. Oh, my gosh! Annoying in some situations, but in work stuff


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GP-101: fantastic. You want me helping you with your ethics application because I will pick up every label you've done wrong every number that's incorrect before the Ethics Committee does. So that kind of thing is a positive. So I found that a really really beneficial experience.


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GP-101: The next thing I want to give you an idea about is what it actually looks like when you have a neuro inclusive place. Now, what I did was I googled it to sort of see if there's any recommendations. And I found this one from the cipd which I love because they highlight that neuro inclusion is not a tick box. And this is something that we've worked a lot on in neuro advisory. It's not something you can just write a list down, tick them all off and go great. We are now neuro, inclusive. It is an ongoing process. Because


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GP-101: we are humans. We change and we grow the experiences I have now could be different in 10 years time. So the things that work for me now in terms of accommodations or the way I work are going to change. So this is a constant thing that you have to do. And the way you make an environment work for that is being open and transparent.


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GP-101: Okay, you need to be able to have a dialogue within you and your team at work to be able to feel comfortable, to say, oh, look! I know that I really like doing it that way. But that's actually not working for me anymore. Can we change it? Can we have a chat about it. And just like what Jodi said, a lot of these things help everyone, not just the neurodiverse people right? Having clarity is useful for everyone.


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GP-101: Right, having movement regularly great for everyone. So a lot of these things are good for all of us.


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GP-101: and what I wanted to do with that one was, give you an example around my specific role. So I work remotely from home, which again, I know, that's not possible for a lot of you working in stem works for me really well, though I love working remotely because I can do all of my weird stuff in the way I work.


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GP-101: No one is seeing me right. I can work weird hours. If I need to. That day I can wear my really comfy clothes. I can make sure I have regular breaks. I'm getting my work done, and my boss understands that. So I can work the way I like, and by having that open dialogue I can often check in with my boss and go. Oh.


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GP-101: I'm just struggling a little bit today I'm feeling a little bit overwhelmed. I've had a really big weekend, or whatever it might be, and she'll be like, Okay, cool. Well, do you want to just do certain things today? Or do you want to take the day off, so we can have this open dialogue, and I can regularly check in and sort of make sure that we're on the same page. And often she'll actually contact me and go. Oh, I feel like I might have said something, and you didn't understand that. And I'll go. Yes, actually, can we talk about a little bit further. I love clarifying questions. They're very helpful, helpful for everyone.


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GP-101: And then so to foster that neuro, inclusive workplace. And this kind of comes back to what my previous speakers have said. There's a lot of things that you can do as a neurodiverse person. So I myself, as a neurodiverse person I like to disclose, like what Danny was talking about. I never used to. I used to get really awkward about it, and I feared that people would see me as less than, or that they would see me. The worst fear I have is that people would infantilize me, and I was like, I don't want people to do that.


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GP-101: When I applied for my current role I went. You know what I'm going to try it. So I went into the interview and straight up. I was quite open about my Adhd in an organic way. I didn't just say I have, Adhd. I have done that, but I did in this one.


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GP-101: I waited till the end, and they say, You know, what questions do you have for us? And I said, What's your experience working with neurodiverse people.


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GP-101: And that's a good test, because they can give you a Hr answer. Right? They can just go, you know we value. But if they don't actually tell you their experience. That tells you something. So my, the one I work with now, they said, we don't have any experience with working with any openly neurodiverse people. However, we'd like to. We're happy to work with you. And so I was able to kind of test the boundaries a little. And you can also use that to not disclose.


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GP-101: They might say, Oh, why do you ask? And you can go? Oh, my kids are neurodiverse, or my last workplace is very new, inclusive, and I found that was very helpful. You don't have to actually go to that next level.


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GP-101: but it allows you to. If you feel comfortable.


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GP-101: Another job that I applied for? I'd asked the same question. They gave a rubbish answer where they just went. Oh, we don't know, and I was like cool. That was a bad answer. Now I know. So you can gauge a lot from that. I also asked the same things because I'm non-binary. I asked that about gender identity as well, and I see if they've worked with gender diverse people. That's a good question to ask, too. But I like this. So this is an example of what I call the manual of me. I saw this online. I think the person I don't remember if they were neurodiverse.


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GP-101: but they were a manager, and they said that in their role everyone in their team has a manual of me which answers the following questions. And so everyone has. Their own little system doesn't have to be fully detailed, can be very simple. But it meant that everyone understood how everyone worked. I saw that and went. Oh, my gosh! I need this because I can tell people the needs I have. And so that example I have there in green. That's 1 of my ones. So you can see I've got things about preparation for change.


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GP-101: I need support in that, because I struggle with change. So this allows my boss to see. Oh, okay, I know that if something's going to change, I need to check in with Romani for a while beforehand and set them up so they understand where it's going


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GP-101: movement. I like to move around. This is useful because they know in meetings. I'm going to be crocheting. If you saw me over there crocheting, I'll have fidget toys. I'll often turn my camera up and wander around and listen so that again lets them know. Oh, I know why they've turned the camera off. It's because they needed to do this, or I know why they're crocheting. It's not because they hate the meeting. They're trying to focus.


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GP-101: and then deadlines coming into what Kat was saying. I have soft and hard deadlines. I tell my boss, tell me when you want it. Tell me when you need it, so I can work to the want date, and then, if I can't get it done, I've still got the need date, because I find that really helps me. So everyone's going to be slightly different. But again, this is useful for anyone. This is not just useful for neurodivergent people. And again coming into some examples, I'm making sure I'm not going too far over time. I'm perfect.


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GP-101: Some examples I already talked about were around the disclosure


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GP-101: and setting up the open dialogue. When I got the offer for the current role that I'm working in, my boss called me up and said, oh, you know we're going to offer you the position, I said. Great! Straight away. I have a question for you. Can I work a 9 day fortnight? And she went. Oh, what does that mean? I said. Same hours. But I just want to work or squash more of those hours into 9 days, over 2 weeks rather than the 10 days. And I felt okay, asking that because I've worked in New South Wales health before, and they have that as an option. And so I was like, I know, this is like a thing that other workplaces have used.


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GP-101: And she went, oh, yeah, of course. No, you do yours how you want, so that allows me to have that one extra day of fortnight to just help prevent that burnout. Give me a little bit of extra sort of relaxation, and sometimes I still work that day if I have things that I want to do. But it just gives me that freedom so straight up. I asked for that, and I knew that straight away I was going to be able to get that by talking to my boss quite openly.


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GP-101: The other thing that I do, and this one's a little bit a little bit sneaky, but sometimes you gotta kind of use the corporate speak


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GP-101: to get around things. Now, I do personally recommend being open and transparent, but I do understand some workplaces are not so encouraging. Use the corporate speak back at them clarity like I said, everyone needs it. So instead of saying, I need to be clear because I have Adhd. If you think that's going to be taken poorly. You can just be like, I'm noticing everyone in this meeting here. I think it's just like a clarity around with everyone. Let's all just check it like you can phrase things in a way that take that onus off you a little bit, especially


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GP-101: if you're feeling unsafe or feeling unclear about how to do that in a way that doesn't feel funny. I love doing that. I use corporate speak all the time to be like, oh, I'm just noticing that, you know, on time everyone's running behind time, or I play it all the time. So I do recommend that if that's something else that you like, I like to do sneaky little things. Sorry about that.


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GP-101: And the last thing I just wanted to mention was around one of the actions that I really like to do in a neuro inclusive workplace. That I've noticed is when people are aware that there are things going on, everyone needs to support that. So if I'm in a workplace where I'm neurodiverse. And I require a particular accommodation. If I have neurotypicals also, being like, yeah, actually, headphones would be great for me, too, or that is really helpful, because it tends to make management go.


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GP-101: Okay, well, it's not just for the neurodiverse person. Everyone wants this. So I tend to rally around, even if I don't need that accommodation. If there are other neurodiverse people that request something I'm like, oh, yeah, actually, I've heard that that's really good for this. Or I think that'd be really beneficial for the whole team.


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GP-101: If you rally in that way. That helps foster a better environment because it stops us feeling like the one lonely person that has to ask the hard questions. We become part of a team. And that's what I love about the neuro advisory. Whenever we have our meetings, we are so open and honest to each other. And we're like, Oh, I don't want to do this, or I'm not sure about that, or I'm just going to go over here for a bit, and because we support each other, I never feel like the odd one out.


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GP-101: I feel like I'm part of this cool, eclectic mix of people, and it's the best thing ever. So that's just what I wanted to end it on there. So obviously, we're going to have a Q&A, I'm going to hand back to Jodi. I have a million things that I can talk to, and I'm sure the rest of us do so. I look forward to various questions. Thank you. That's fantastic.


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GP-101: So that's the


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GP-101: some of what we wanted to share with you, as you can probably see, we can. We like to chat, and we can talk a lot. But


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GP-101: now is the time, I guess, for for your chance to ask us some questions, or talk as a group about some of the things you'd like to know about


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GP-101: there's some instructions there which are very handy. So if you've got a question, just throw your hand up and we will


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GP-101: find you with microphone.


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GP-101: Yeah, now he's gonna do that.


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GP-101: And while you're thinking about your burning question, I wanted to just let you know. You might have seen me wearing my sunflower lanyard today, you may not know what it is, but this is the hidden disability, Lanyard. They also come in a wristband. So hidden disabilities can be a range of things.


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GP-101: But this is a way to let people know


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GP-101: that you, I guess, have a hidden disability. You might, and they might expect that you might ask


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GP-101: for something. I like to wear it at the airport, because I can then go through the quiet Security lane and not and be able to work out how I've packed my bag wrong, or whatever, in a in a quiet way. People do come up to me at the airport and say, Is there anything that you need. And I really appreciate that. So airports can be


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GP-101: a stressful environment. And there is also, I believe the team will know. But you can. There's like an ally version, I think, which is white with


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GP-101: so


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GP-101: sunflower, you can look up the sunflower lanyard, and I believe the university is now part of this. It's taken a while. The University has now


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GP-101: agreed to sign up and pay the small fee, and so I'm not sure where you get your lanyards from Cap. Do you know Edi unit? And you everyone could get one through transport New South Wales, anyway? So that's just a little aside. I.


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GP-101: It's take. It took me a while to get comfortable with the disability language and


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GP-101: but it's all good, because it's a different ability. So it's how you frame it. It's about difference. And difference is okay. Scientists. We love different.


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GP-101: I don't know about you all, but the idea of having a chat about a podcast about Russian spies would delight me. So I don't know these people who might not like that. But they're not in my circle. Okay. Are there any questions? Yes.


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GP-101: yeah. Come up and help me. Guys. Sorry. Thank you so much. I'm Barbara. I work at the career service here at the University. Could you put this slide up with the names of the panel members again for me, please? That would be really lovely, and that might take me with all my.


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GP-101: thank you. And I just want to thank you all for telling your stories. It was really powerful. It was so lovely to hear from each of you. Thank you so much. So my question, I think, is for Danny. I've heard of the Spoon theories before. It was really great to hear you talk about it.


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GP-101: Why, spoons, though? Was it just because she was sitting in a restaurant? Yes, so I was going to share this, and I was running out of time. I really struggle with metaphors that are not grounded in reality, and I try as I may have not found a way to get spoons to work


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GP-101: until I thought. I now think of them as if I'm in a prison, and I've got my spoons that I'm using to tunnel out. It does in a way suggest that every day I wake up in a jail, and my goal is to get out of the prison. But I find that amusing. So that is the only way I've been able to ground spoons. In reality.


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GP-101: That said, I am a social worker. I've run groups with neurodivergent parents and things. And whenever I share spoon theory, people come up with their own. Some people like to think about it like tabs on a phone like once you've opened up the Max amount of tabs your phone like slows right down, and you can't open any more tabs. And you know, if you have too many open. You're going to be confused things like that.


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GP-101: I've just stuck with spoons, because once you are in the disability space, you'll start to find that like someone will say, Oh, I've got no spoons today. The language is kind of getting around. So now I'm just


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GP-101: tunneling out of a prison cell every day, and that works for me. I love that, Danny. That's so good. I have not thought about it in that way. It certainly is out there the whole spoon, and I've even got friends will say, you know, make sure you've got enough spoons. So I love that as an autistic person who needs metaphors to make sense. It's taken me a long time to figure out one that makes sense


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GP-101: other questions. There's just one here in the chat which and this one Romany, you might be well placed to answer your feelings on a formal autism diagnosis, and whether the benefits outweigh the hassle.


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GP-101: the cost, and I think they didn't say this, but the difficulty in actually getting a place. Yeah. So my opinion. So I don't have a diagnosis for autism. I pursued the Adhd diagnosis because I knew that I could potentially get to medication. And I knew that that was what I needed was the medication was a potential solution. I didn't know if it was going to work, but I thought, I can try that avenue.


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GP-101: whereas when I was talking to my psychologist


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GP-101: for me, the autism diagnosis wasn't going to give me anything extra that I was already getting. I was already seeing a psychologist. I was redoing a lot of work on that kind of side, so I felt like for me. It wasn't going to benefit me in any other way, and I could not afford the cost. Even the cost of the Adhd diagnosis was rough.


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GP-101: So for me I had to pick. And so that was the way I picked. What about for you, though? Yeah, for me. I went in the reverse order because I didn't think I had either. And so and it happens with a lot of parents that they go through a diagnostic process with a child, and then they seek one out.


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GP-101: They're very expensive. They're hard to get.


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GP-101: They're all different. So there is no real standard way to get a diagnosis. So some, it's usually a range of questionnaires and clinical interview and things like that. So


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GP-101: probably my 2 diagnoses because they were done separate, because I didn't


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GP-101: no to ask to have it all done at once, and you know, probably cost well over $2,000. I was in a position that I could afford to pay for that over those 2 years many families would not be in that position.


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GP-101: Does it make a difference. It made a difference for me in helping me understand myself, so it hasn't changed.


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GP-101: Label hasn't changed me, but it's helped me understand, and I'm pick some of the reasons why I do things while I feel different ways. Understand some of those


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GP-101: those things. I put up the cool things I've learned like, because I'm curious, and and all of that, it's helped with that. And then, of course, the Adhd diagnosis


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GP-101: is linked to medication, which also, I couldn't believe made a difference. Yeah, but it did, and I would have told you a year ago it wouldn't have, but it did add something quickly about. And so I'm pro for that reason. Yeah, I so I'm also not formally diagnosed autistic. And I worked with a lot of families who


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GP-101: like weren't going to seek their own diagnosis. What I'd suggest is particularly in the study that I'm doing at the moment. Looking at late diagnosed women, we, as from a neuroaffirming perspective. Accept self diagnosis as just.


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GP-101: It's fine. It's absolutely valid to self identify particularly because it can help you understand yourself and things. But also because it's really difficult to get a diagnosis. I asked 3 separate doctors to refer me for an Adhd diagnosis over a period of 10 years before anyone listened to me, and it took me, having, like a last minute panicked phone call, where all of my Adhd symptoms were on display, where I was interrupting and panicked, and


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GP-101: all over the shop to finally be listened to. I don't need a psychiatrist to validate my autism. I'm autistic, and


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GP-101: it's not something I need. There are like valid reasons for people to seek diagnosis. But yeah, and it might change. I I did my Adhd diagnosis initially with this clinical psychologist. But then, of course, I needed a psychiatrist to get medication, and I thought I am very pretty attentive.


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GP-101: and at the end of my 1st meeting with them. They had this beautiful butterfly thing on the wall with different butterflies, and he said to me, Are you zoned out a couple of times, and I was like


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GP-101: I wouldn't have. And then I said, Oh, well, but I do like that butterfly pitch, and off I went. And then I thought.


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GP-101: okay, this is this is the attention that obviously people can see that I couldn't see. So I, learning that part about myself, has been really helpful for me and it, and I guess all of the rabbit holes of understanding all of the differences has helped me with my family as well.


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GP-101: I'm you know my whole family will be neurodivergent. Most of them won't ever get a diagnosis, but we operate in a way that's safe for that, anyway.


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GP-101: Nice.


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GP-101: Thank you. Thank you very much, for sharing was a very enlightened for me.


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GP-101: Talking about diagnosis, and you are referring a lot to understanding.


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GP-101: I'm just wondering how much is understanding how much is acceptance from ourself and from the environment that includes family acceptance coworkers, acceptance


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GP-101: friends, acceptance. Yeah, it's a really important point. Yeah. And I think they're, you know, close, they're closely related self-acceptance, but also acceptance of those around you.


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GP-101: For me, the diagnosis and the learning about it has helped me. Be confident to say


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GP-101: I like this, or I need it this way, because whereas before I would have been like, I knew I was different to lots of people.


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GP-101: but I used to just internalize that and say, Well, you're this, and you're that, you know you have that


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GP-101: But now I feel like I can explain it. And, for instance, we were talking about books. I


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GP-101: don't not like reading books, but I love stories, and I discovered audio books.


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GP-101: and it's opened my world to books. But there is a member of my family said, well, it's not really reading, is it?


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GP-101: And you know what we all have these inherent views on things. They're deep, and we have our own internalized ableism like, why can't I get up and do that today I should be able to for me at this age. Why can't I do the things I could do 10 years ago, like what is wrong with me.


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GP-101: And so that self-acceptance, I think, is the big 1st part. When you start and get some of that on board, you start and be able to, and being amongst your akin can help. You have the confidence to say.


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GP-101: Actually.


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GP-101: I love audio books because reading is really hard for me, people say, but you read lots of papers, scientific papers. They're easy because


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GP-101: broken up into sections. I can just go and read the bit I want. Sometimes it's just the results. I would ditch the discussion. Because who cares? Right? I just want to know the answer. I have written many papers, and the discussion is the part I hate because I don't want to discuss it with you. Okay. But some people love that part, and that's okay. But now I can say that out loud and feel like, I'm okay that I don't like doing that part. It's not


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GP-101: a flaw. It's a difference.


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GP-101: I mean, you want me to clean your data I loved. When the team was talking about the things you want me to do, I give me a spreadsheet. Let me clean your data. I like that's the stuff


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GP-101: you you want me to be doing, that. You probably don't want me writing your discussion, because it will be the cat said on the Mat, and you know someone wants to describe them that I don't care like that's sorry to jump in again. I don't want to talk too much, but it's something fascinating I'm finding in my research is what they're finding with particularly late diagnosed women is this experience of


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GP-101: reconceptualizing, like all your experience up to a point. So the experience of diagnosis can be really exciting, because you finally are like, Oh, yes, I finally understand everything that's going on. There can also be a period of grief, because suddenly, you understand, there are things that I've struggled with my whole life that I needn't have.


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GP-101: There were things that I thought made me a bad person, or I was incompetent. I just wasn't good enough. Why couldn't I do it? I felt less than that now you're re understanding like in a new light. So it's understanding and acceptance, absolutely and kind of like


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GP-101: learning who you are as a whole new person. I'm not the person I thought I was. It turns out there's this other thing that explains lots of different parts of my life. And now I can have an opportunity to get to know that person, and I've got to know that person, and I can tell you it's the 1st time in my life I've loved myself.


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GP-101: I'm really cool. Being neurodivergent is awesome. It's not everyone's cup of tea. And absolutely, I say, the wrong thing. But it is cool for the 1st time in my life to just go. I like being a bit quirky and weird, and it's all right, so it's cool.


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GP-101: Can I add one thing to that as well. So for me, I found that the process of the diagnosis was really useful for taking away this shame, that I felt I had a lot of shame. For example, in one of my earlier jobs I got in trouble for watching Youtube videos whilst I worked. But I needed that background noise to focus.


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GP-101: So I saw that I took away from that that I was a bad person. I was terrible at my job. I was lazy, I was not doing my work, and once I figured out my diagnosis and realized the ways that I work and understood it better. It has taken that shame away now, and I understand how I work, and I don't feel so defensive about doing things like that. And the second thing about family you mentioned acceptance of family.


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GP-101: I for me. It's about intersectionality for me, because I'm also non-binary. So I have 2 sort of big pillars of my identity. I felt more comfortable sharing my neurodiverse experience with my family than my gender identity. I still haven't come out to my parents, but I have told them about my neurodiversity because I felt like that would be easy for them to understand.


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GP-101: and I will say they were defensive. The 1st thing my mom said was also a terrible mother. I didn't pick it up earlier. And I was like, so it is challenging because it does. It can feel. I can understand how a parent might go. Oh, yeah, I should have helped you sooner. And that's not what I wanted my mom to feel. So yeah, there's a lot of complexity to it for sure.


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GP-101: Hello! Thank you to all the speakers for the information which I found really useful, and also sharing your own experiences, because it's always great to have that context. My name's Angela, and I manage the Hmri Brain Neuromodulation research program, where we had the pleasure of meeting Katrina a few years ago at one of our student workshops that we hosted.


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GP-101: And it's just been so inspiring to see the path that you've taken Katrina with all the


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GP-101: yeah work in this space. So that's great. I have a question, Jodie, for you, because we put on events for a range of people from researchers, clinicians, students, and it's a funny question, but it's about the slide you had with the catering, and how that was really helpful for you. So are you able to elaborate a little bit


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GP-101: bit more on that one, please. Yeah, absolutely. I guess my understanding of everyone has a different term for this. But of like beige food came from my from my parenting, and of course, you know, I was going to make sure everyone ate all of the things


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GP-101: and then, realizing that there are a lot of neurodivergent people have safe foods, and


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GP-101: and often they're beige


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GP-101: and I don't know the science behind that, but just going to a conference and having an event where there was some options that were safe food. So there were hot chips. There were probably nuggets. They were just sandwiches, like I said it wasn't all. I love food, and I love all kinds of food. So for me, that wasn't a personal challenge, but I know would be a challenge for other colleagues and some of my family.


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GP-101: And so just having some options, I think it's, you know. Recently we had a family event that we needed to cater for, and we we made sure there were nuggets. And you may have seen all that stuff on social media about nug life, and I mean it's a theme, and it's real


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GP-101: And I guess with that meeting I've I've never really been to a meeting with a with a sensory, quiet room before a space where it was okay, and we ran one last year.


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GP-101: and I was all excited to run one. But I actually sat in that room with the team, and I had the best day, and I. We had the talks going, and we could sit on the floor, or we could sit on the chairs. We could just be, and but still have the access to the information.


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GP-101: So part of my diagnosis, I was telling the psychologist that I can't go to a meeting and just listen.


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GP-101: I never realized that might be


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GP-101: a characteristic of anything I said. Oh, now I'll be texting my friend in the other meeting, or I'll be doing something, but I'll still be taking it in, or I write notes like I have lots of strategies to keep moving, and I think certainly in the non-stereotypical version of Adhd, that internalized hyperactivity isn't as well understood. But


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GP-101: I'm constantly doing something. Can I add to the food? Yeah. And so I just know in terms of events, having a place where it's okay. If you're


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GP-101: now, I might be offended if you're on your phone when I'm speaking, whereas my mother would think that the height of rudeness and of course I would have at 1 point, because I was.


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GP-101: That's how I'm understood how things should be.


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GP-101: I just wanted to add to the food because my work is in eating disorders. And it's been amazing working in eating disorders and realizing how many problems I have with food that I had known but hadn't really. And again it comes back to that shame idea. I'm a picky eater. I am the beige food person. I really struggle at conferences. I often don't eat at conferences, because there's nothing I like, and it's not just a distaste for things. I have a very physical reaction to foods I don't like.


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GP-101: You do not want to see. So when I go to conferences, if there's not food that I can have. I? Yeah, I just don't eat. And so, having the more sensory, friendly ones are things like hot chips. I have been to a conference where, on the form, in the dietary requirements, they actually had a neurodivergent, friendly with an open box. And you could put some things in there you liked like hot chips. So they would have some of those options. They couldn't guarantee it, because obviously, everyone's gonna have different needs.


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GP-101: But that was really helpful, because again, that was a really big challenge for me. And there's a massive overlap with neurodivergence and eating disorders, particularly Arford. If you've heard of Arford, avoidant restrictive food intake disorder, but also just general sensory vibes like there's a lot of foods. I don't like sensors of, so food's a challenging one, but I do think, having that availability is really good to offer.


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GP-101: Yeah, go for it. I still have a 22 year old daughter that still doesn't like foods to touch, so she quite often will go somewhere. And there's options. And she's like, I've got to Google, the closest place where I can go and get me food. However, I found it interesting. I'm getting married in 6 weeks and 3 days, and we looked at a bunch of different locations, and I went.


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GP-101: I have to factor in the fact that 3 quarters of my guest list are going to be autistic people, or Adhd people, or a mix thereof, or some other neurodivergent conditions have a lot of no allergies. Yay, that was easy, but very few places that wouldn't offer an alternate drop menu. So I had to really hunt down somewhere that was willing to let me let each guest specifically pick


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GP-101: what they want and give a list of what doesn't work in those meals so that they can be adapted and give their restaurant plenty of notice to actually make those accommodations.


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GP-101: Hello! I'm jess I'm 1 of the hunter. Wise mentors. I have a question. So what advice would you give to like managers in the room? For reasonable adjustments in the workplace if they have


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GP-101: no idea about that, because I've been to a job interview and I've asked for accommodations for the job interview. And, like, you know, accessing job access and all that. So yeah, what advice would you provide? I think we've probably all got different thoughts on that. And I think the one thing as a manager you can do is


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GP-101: make it easy in terms of


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GP-101: bringing up the possibility for everyone


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GP-101: that they might. You know you might need things in a different way. And that's okay. You appreciate that as a manager. So having that open conversation about


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GP-101: flexibility and needs, I think it's a way you can do it without needing the person to disclose as well like I said so. Some of those adjustments are for everyone.


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GP-101: I've got a really simple one. And that's just trust your employees like trust that they're doing their job. That, you know, taking extra breaks does not equal. I'm just gonna slack off. And I'm like taking advantage like, just trust that if they say they need the accommodation to just yeah, like.


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GP-101: give it to them. Don't micromanage in that way if it's not necessary. And just, yeah, be supportive. I recommend reading a book called Laziness does not exist. It's not specifically about neurodivergence, although it touches on it a lot because the author is neurodivergent. But they talk a lot about productivity in the workplace, and how


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GP-101: the average person cannot focus for 8 h without not having a break. And so a lot of your day is actually taken up by your brain going. I need to stop and go and fill up my water bottle or quickly check my phone. And that is okay. If anything that is good. So I do recommend reading. That helped me again. Take away a lot of shame.


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GP-101: Have a think about how you're opening those discussions for adjustments. Can you change that so that it's not so much of a fear. Oh, my God, I've got to disclose!


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GP-101: If we're opening those conversations with everyone and making everyone comfortable, that they don't have to disclose, but can still talk about adjustments, then that can potentially smooth out some of those harder edges. Okay.


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GP-101: any other burning questions.


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GP-101: I guess I just might add, if if you do have any other questions, Leah knows how to get in touch with us, or if you'd like to talk about anything further, you can see, we're all happy to to share with you.


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GP-101: presenting that for a year in a row.


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GP-101: What we?


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GP-101: No, I haven't i i originally, when I started out. I was trying to link in with lots of that stuff, and then life gets in the way. And and I haven't


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GP-101: thought about that. We we, I guess, as the advisory. We're still


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GP-101: new and and emerging and working out where we're best placed to share what we're doing.


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GP-101: But that's I'll certainly look into it. Thank you.


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GP-101: Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Everyone. Did you want to?


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GP-101: Well.


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GP-101: I would just like to thank you all for coming online. And in person. We've had a great time, and I hope that it's been beneficial to learn a little bit more about who we are, what we do and about ways you might be able to


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GP-101: make inclusivity part of every day. Thanks so much